The people who would suffer the most from the rezoning are people of color. They were there yesterday, and pretty excited that "trendy spoiled hipster kids" had cleaned up a park for their children to play in.

Hey ang copp, I don't see any families of color in those pictures, and i don't think that park is going to be for kids. Maybe these trendy spoiled hipster kids should go to a neighborhood that could use some real cleaning up. Maybe Washington Heights. Or are there too many Spanish speaking Latinos and not enough white English speakers there.

It's good to check IMC now and then so I can find out what the people of color think. In this case luxury hi-rise apartments are good and mostly white activist types are not. Sure thing [snip].

"wow! gentrification all the way! How about reaching to the people of "color." Oh no.. wait. Latinos and African Americans in Williamburg?? Not for long.... Check the homeless shelters or perhaps East NY"

Excuse me, excuse me- could you please be more divisive. No, you're not being divisive enough. Could you please -yes, you- please yell loudly at people who aren't being activists in the way you think they should be activists?

Thank you. That's better -no, shout LOUDER- that's right, you're getting it. Pretty soon we'll all not be getting along, and that's exactly what the landlords and politicians *love*. They'll continue making money, we'll continue festering in our dysfunction. Good job!

"The people who would suffer the most from the rezoning are people of color."

In Williamburg? No, it Polish, Jewish, and other Central European imigrant familys, that have been there before to the club kid and artist.

And why making big story about black and latin people? Were they part of protest? No? They have their own protest? No? That is a bigger story, than your whine, that they choose to not protest.

And do not give me this story that the white must push the black to become involved - didnot the black declare independence of the white? What business do the white have of the telling the black what to do?

You Americans are strange.

Uptown Latina - I didn't take the pictures, so I can't speak to what pictures you're seeing. And it is, excuse me, completely bullshit to say that the Williamsburg and Greenpoint waterfront doesn't need "real cleaning up". ONE THIRD of the city's trash comes through this neighborhood. We have one of the highest child asthma rates in the city, but apparently that doesn't matter because according to you no children live in this neighborhood, or the people who do live here have no right breeding. I don't know if you are trying to start the game of "whose got is worse", because I am not going to play.

ang copp... i'm not saying anyone has it worse. and i'm not saying children don't live in the white neighborhood. i don't even know how you read that out of what i wrote. all i was saying is that the white kids in that neighborhood are spoiled and trendy, they aren't even from this city, and don't fully understand how to appreciate that neighborhood for what it is now. there are many many many latinos, blacks and people of color who do not protest for fear of being arrested, and people of color when arrested are treated far worse than any spoiled white middle american kids. and many latinos worry about getting deported, so they avoid any sort of attention altogether. so yippy and good for spoiled white kids that came in and took over a quite little neighborhood that was full of eastern european immigrants, who weren't complaining about pollution and were happy with cheap rents.

Trolls are people who post comments designed to inflame arguments instead of discussion. They are hidden off the newswire. If someone posts a comment that is just insulting, don't be surprised if your response disappears as well. Comments about editorial policy can be directed to:  imc-nyc-editorial@lists.indymedia.org

paulinho - there are latinos in williamsburg as well as poles and hasidic jews. the rezoning effects the area towards the bridge more, which is predominantly latino.

uptown latina, i am no longer clear about what you are trying to convince me except that i am spoiled because i am white and live in greenpoint, and because of this i do not appreciate my neighborhood. are you saying white people shouldn't protest because immigrants are too afraid to and we should all stay home and do nothing?

i guess you also want me to believe that none of the people who lived here before me cared about the child asthma rate or the garbage. i guess that would be precisely why the community wrote its own rezoning plan 15 years ago (197-a) to address the need for parks and less pollution.

 http://www.gwapp.org/members/
do these look like hipster spoiled white kid clubs to you?

 http://www.billburg.com/nag/our_mission.html
this shows there were community organizations fighting waste transfer stations in williamsburg in 1994, way before the hipsters showed up.

you also said earlier "this park won't be for kids". are you saying we plan on having a kid with a trucker hat at the gate checking ID for people to get in? there was kite making and a scavenger hunt on sunday specifically designed to be kid friendly.

Williamsburg is a dump anyway. Why would you want to live there? Move to Sunset Park instead; real diversity and few anyone "startving artisits" (translates as "spoiled rich kids living off their parents' money in $3000 lofts, making macarroni art, pretending to slum it so they can get laid")

I am a "hispanic/latino" from Bushwick.

1. " http://www.gwapp.org/members/
do these look like hipster spoiled white kid clubs to you?"

That cute little WHITE GIRL sure looks nice blowing bubbles.

GRINGOS GET OFF THE J/M/L LINE. STICK YOUR IPODS IN YOUR ASS. ALSO, ONCE YOU HAVE STORES SUCH AS "BROOKLYN INDUSTRIES" CATERING TO ONLY THE WHITES OF THE "HOOD." YOU HAVE GENTRIFIED ENOUGH AS IT IS. YOU DO NOT CARE ABOUT A CLEAN ENVIRONMENT. YOU ONLY CARE ABOUT A CLEAN ENVIRONMENT FOR YOU AND ONLY YOU (NOT IN MY BACKYARD). (WHITE RICH KIDS WHO DRESS "POOR")YOU ARE NOT HERE FOR A POLITICAL CHANGE. JUST LIKE THOSE DIRTY HIPPIES FROM THE 60'S/70'S. IT IS ALL ABOUT A CULTURE CHANGE IN YOURSELF. NOT FOR THE PEOPLE WHO REALLY SUFFER. WHY DONT YOU MOVE TO WASHINGTON HEIGHTS OR JACKSON HEIGHTS?? TOO MANY SPANISH SPEAKING PEOPLE MIGHT SCARE YOU?

you've convinced me. i am not worthy of greenpoint. i will move to sunset park, or washington heights, or wherever you people think i should be purged to. i will give up my dream of learning polish so i can speak to my grandma in her language.

i am awaiting your instructions on where i should relocate. i'll have to relocate once williamsburg is rezoned for luxury condos anyway.

I did not know that you can only learn Polish in Williamsburg??

"i am awaiting your instructions on where i should relocate. i'll have to relocate once williamsburg is rezoned for luxury condos anyway."

hmm... What is the difference with rich white hipster kids that live in dirty apartments, as to rich white kids that live in luxury condos? I do not see it. YOU ARE ADVANCING THE PROCESS OF GENTRIFICATION

JUST BECAUSE I AM WHITE DOES NOT MAKE ME RICH.

Ok, granted. I might be wrong. BUT. To the person who could not afford your place, you are rich to him/her. Also. To all the "hipsters" from WB. What are you gonna do on MAYDAY? Go to Bushwick and help out.

hey, i tried living in park slope because living there no one could accuse me of gentrifying. that place is a done deal, it's over, it's gentrified. but i couldn't afford it.

i live with my best friend who is definitely not a hipster, he is a latino from canarsie. this is the cheapest place i have rented, ever. he and i cannot afford to live in a luxury condo that will sell for $1 million.

as for learning polish, i can't afford to take a class but i can afford to sit in the park with my neighbors.

according to all these comments, by sheer virtue of being white and 25 living in greenpoint i am automatically responsible for all the hipsters here. i'm sorry but i am only responsible for myself, and fuck you for pissing on me for cleaning up a park.

be nice PEOPLE! and show up in Bushwick for MAYDAY!

ang copp- i think you need to cool down a bit.
I used to live in park slope as well, but i lived in the latino section where my 1 bedroom apt was $750 and i managed to make it into 2 bedrooms to share with a roomate. So i would agree with who ever it was that pointed out that to me, in my terms, i would think that you are probably rich and spoiled. I was also offended when you claimed that your roomate cannot be a hipster because he is latino and from canarsie.
If you are worried about rent increases pushing you into latino neighborhood where you cannot learn polish, then maybe you should move to poland. I hear that rent is very affordable there, and everyone is white!!

unless you cannot find a roof to sleep under, someone always has it better than you. i am not sorry that i like where i live. the median income of my neighborhood is $27k, which is what i made last year. but you keep insisting this is a racial issue, and not a class issue. according to you by virtue of my being white i am spoiled just the same as those people who make $100k who will buy the condos on the waterfront.

i in no way implied that my best friend can't be hip because he is puerto rican. (he listens to jodie mecina and tim mcgraw. that is what makes him not a hipster :) i feel like you keep implying that i am racist because i do not live in another neighborhood. you don't know me, but you accuse me of wanting to live in an all white neighborhood because i want to learn polish. and then if i moved to your neighborhood you would accuse me of gentrifying it. you can't have it both ways.

you are being divisive and inflammatory and personally insulting.

Here's a question: where should white, "lower middle class (under 40,000 per year household)" New Yorkers live?

They can't afford to live anywhere in Manhattan, and anyplace they CAN afford will probably involve them in a gnetrification situation So should they move to Omaha?

In all seriousness, though, I wonder what advice Uptown Latina would give to people in this situation?

i don't care where middle class white people live. some live in brooklyn, queens, the bronx, staten island, and even manhattan. there are some here in washington heights. i have never made any comments about gentrification, so if you think i would be mad because someone in my income bracket moved into my hispanic neighborhood of another race, you would be completely wrong.
ang copp- don't twist my words around, i am not trying to say you are racist for not living in another neighborhood, you can live wherever you want. and i never accused you of wanting to live in an all white neighborhood because you wanted to learn polish. lets not get off topic. the topic was that somebody posted these pictures of a bunch of trendy spoiled white kids being trendy and spoiled, instead of using that energy and enthusiasm on an issue that is really important.

In response to your last comment: well said. This has gotten way off topic. Part of the problem and reason for the off-topic nature is that this event/happening should have never been posted in the first place.

i wish more spoiled kids picked up trash instead of bitching about other people's actions on indymedia.

fred askew has posted pictures of all kinds of events on this site for years - from anti-war marches, muslim day parades, direct actions, garden festivals. he's the only photographer who comes out consistently to activist events - whether they be "really important" in the estimation of uptown latina, or if they be merely celebratory. i'm always happy to see his pictures.

the most spoiled thing i can think of is sitting on your ass and complaining that what other people are doing is not good enough.

"Maybe these trendy spoiled hipster kids should go to a neighborhood that could use some real cleaning up. Maybe Washington Heights. Or are there too many Spanish speaking Latinos and not enough white English speakers there." - uptown latina

wait, you want white people to go into YOUR neighborhood and organize YOUR community? you want other people to do for you what you should be doing for yourself? that, my friend, is pretty much the definition of spoiled.

As a white hispanic (no not all hispanics have native American features) I am insulted by all of the stereotyping that is being spewed on the part of Uptown latina. Your bunching of all peoples makes you blind to see beyond your own ignorance

First off , you explain that hispanics are people of color, well hon let me explain that my family is from puerto rico and still lives there and it is separated by class and race. The rich look like Europeans due to mainly Spanish heritage (which is in Europe for those who are too ignorant to know) and the poor have more native features due to the Spanish conquering of Puerto Rico and most of Latin America for that matter from the native peoples which explains darker features and different facial structures.

So to put all hispanics as people of color is ridiculous and stereotypical. Oh and just for all of you people who will be claiming that I am less of a hispanic due to "skin privilege" and must have some big bucks will be pleased to know that I have a masters degree in English Literature speak German, English and Spanish fluently and still have a crap job that pays about 28,000 a year and I live in Greenpoint as well trying to make ends meet. YAY WHITE MALE OPPRESSION (I'm really living high on the hog thanks to being white)

On to the rich white kid syndrome that uptown latina seems to have been afflicted with. You claim in so many of your posts that ang copp needs to move to poland or whatever in order to learn polish and to have reasonable rents because then she will be around white people but in later posts claim that it is not about white or color but of money. Ang copp already let you know that her income is the median income of the neighborhood which is far from being gentrified at this point (greenpoint) so what is your beef?

If you are going to lambast people with inflammatory accusations and rhetoric please be consistent. If I have to read such crap at least let it have some flow of continuous thought. It seems ang copp says the sky is blue and you say it's red just to disagree.

You bitch that the white hipsters should move to other neighborhoods with more latino populations. Hello? you are bitching that they already took over a former latino neighborhood keep your argument straight.

And if you want some white kids with nice trucker hats (which are soooooo out by the way) to come to your neighborhood to clean up why don't you get off your fat lazy ass and get to work to inspire people to think that it's cool to be involved in your neighborhood and then the white kids who love to "slum" it will come in droves to join the "posse" (sounding lame to emphasize whitey hood).

as in a previous post you put "oooh white kids acting cool while cleaning"

If everyone wanted to be "cool" like that, the world would be a much better place and be looked upon with clarity and not clouded with out of focus color lenses that you seem to view the world in.

hooray for ang copp and all the people who get involved in the world and bring beauty to the neighborhoods that they live in.

ok dear brain. first off, i never ever claimed that all latinos were people of color. i was making a claim on latinos, as well as people of color, using the phrase to speak of many types of ethnic groups. i think its nice for you to be a light skined puerto rican, therefore you are american and not an immigrant, or an illegal immigrant. which is why i had made my claim that such immigrants will hesitate at any protests, or anything that gathers police attention, for fear of being arrested, and unfortunately police DO look at skin color.
as far as you saying i've made many posts about ang copp moving to poland to learn polish? i had just made the suggestion once. but like i said i don't care where he lives. because that is sooo way off topic, it was just his way of twisting my words around and i don't even care.
i don't even know how the topic got switched over from williamsburg to greenpoint. all my complaints were of the spoiled kids in williamsburg. greenpoint has a completely different reputation. so why not twist this around some more and accuse me of hating downtown brooklyn, and park slope as well. and i wont even argue with you on your weak arguement about the gentrification in greenpoint. do you know where the lower income polish people are moving to? i do. i've read all the posts over and over, and i can't figure out where you are reading that i said hipsters should move to latino neighboorhoods. i already said if people with the same income brackets move to my hispanic neighborhood then i don't care, cause they are already here. like i said my complaint was these spoiled kids should do something more productive and useful.
now you are saying i'm fat and lazy.
i have not made any calims of the sort to any of you whities. ok. if you must know, ang copp makes almost double what i make, i work my ass off just to scrape by, and i have an ill mother that i need to care for as well. if i had extra time on my hands i would put my time to use within my neighborhood. just from my eyes when i look at these photos, i see spoiled white kids making something minor into something big. this world has many problems and so what if these trendy spoiled kids don't have everything the way they want it, that is life.
and... "oooh white kids acting cool while cleaning" .... where did i say that? more twisting, and putting words in my mouth.

so yeah, hooray for self centered white kids. the world revolves around them.