to clarify: police arrested trans guy and two amazing supporters after an INSANE arrest in the bathroom and violent police action against the crew of us who tried to intervene. all 3 were released this afternoon, but we're going to fight (to win) to get all the charges dropped. if anyone's interested in future support actions, please post here or email  endwealth@hotmail.com.

the individual who was arrested is a friend of mine, and he is a transgendered man. He does not identify as a woman, which is why he was in the men's room to begin with. I would appreciate it if you would accurately report the issue. which is: a self-identified trans-man was arrested for using the men's room.

You know... there's this song that goes something like "I'm having a bladder burst while you stand there and contemplate gender!" I never thought that it might be describing a real event.

Dean - I'm glad that you at least have the where-with-all to withstand this bullshit - and that you are fighting back. Hang in there, buddy - we're behind you a hundred percent.

Always,

Nicklin Heap
Ithaca, NY

I am apppalled at the thought of the police and some members of the legal profession being so biased in this day and age.. thought we had left this kind of harassment behind back in the not -so-good old days of the 50's and 60's
Obviously not and obvioulsy a great deal more needs to be done in the way of educating the public and even members of our own community regarding transgendered people

This is just one more example of NYC's NOT so "Finest" at their worst. It is outrageous, that a transgendered man should be intimidated, harrassed, and unjustly be arrested and housed for twenty three hours and charged in what should have been considered his legal right to use the public rest room facilities in the year 2002 in NYC. Yet once again, this goes to show just how ignorant and discriminating the NYC Police Department is! Oh..I forgot.. it's the NYC Police Department..the corrupt one! They shoot down Afro-Americans who are unarmed, killing them, with 41 bullents, many of which were in the feet, (meaning the victim was already down on the ground!), just like Los Angele's Not so "Finest" plants dope on gang members then arrests them! Hmm..wonder of both departments are related to each other? After all...dope dealers, Afro Americans, transgenders, gays, lesbians, bisexuals...they all look a like so they must be guilty and breaking the law! ARGGGGH! Makes me ashamed of the fact that I spent a few years of my life living in NYC while obtaining one of my degrees and having relatives on the PD! ACK!

I hope this injustice is resolved in the courtroom and the victims are vindicated!

what right do they have to determine which males can and cannot use the male restrooms? is it a matter of genitalia? if, in some freak accident, a genetic male's appendage is severed, does he fall into the same class as transgendered male and should he have to use the female restrooms? damn. behind him 150%.

im just so releived that he and his friends got out of jail, finally, after 23 hours and 5 charges...
word to what adrian just said... i think its attrocious that his apointed representation tonight actually had the nerve to ask what his genetalia was...

i completly support him and will be present to show support if it is wanted... please email me to let me know what i can do to help...

solidarity

I was assaulted by a cop on the bart train in San Francisco. Why? because I was eating. (nibbling on a burrito wrapped in tin foil)I was taken off the train and thrown up against a trash barrel. All for the crime of eating on the train. His reaction was so aggressive, it could only have to do with the fact I look so much like a dude, but am clearly not. What woman would be treated like this? A butch looking one. I can only hope that something comes of your situation. Nothing came of mine, He didnt show when I went to fight the 2 $150.00 tickets that he gave me. As much as I hate to say it, getting busted in the guys john might be the only way to fight this. As tragic as it may be for anyone to have to go thru your trama, someone has to be the sacrafice with the energy to stand up.
Good luck. My sympathies for your struggle but I bow to your strength to fight however unwelcome it might be.

i am SO GLAD the NYC police force is there to protect us from threats to society such as a transgendered man wanting to use the bathroom! where would we be without them?
meanwhile, as this picture was being taken, there were probably several robberies, rapes, and murders that went unprevented because these fine oficers felt the need to protect a toilet.
this is probably the most rediculous and unfair story i have ever heard.

it's really great to see this conversation taking place on indymedia. all of us who were arrested at grand central and our friends who fought back for us really appreciate the support. as a non-trans person, i thought i'd offer some web resources for people to learn more about transgender politics. we have a big fight ahead, and it's a good opportunity to build coalitions based on a commitment to equal access to public space and a defense of all people's right to dissent. fuck the gender police! fight to win!

 http://www.ftm-intl.org/ (FTM International)
 http://www.camptrans.com/ (Camp Trans protest site)
 http://www.gpac.org/ (Gender PAC)
 http://www.tghelp.org/ (Comm. Awareness for Trans Support)
 http://www.annelawrence.com/tooradical.html (Riki Anne Wilchins)
 http://www.sandystone.com/hale.rules.html (rules for non-trans people writing about trans issues)

That you were arrested for something so innocent and using a gender-specific bathroom is unbelieveable! an Outrage! This has got to stop. We need to lobby to change federal laws to protect the rights and freedoms of trans people. It's like the Civil Rights struggle all over again!

Well, as far as I know this the most offencive and outragous crime by the police that has come out of the protest... And even though my friends were pepper sprayed in a legal march, and I was arrested for simply walking down the side walk in Sunday's snake march, I am more outraged by Dean's experience than anything else.

Someone said something about chages being dropped... Don't even worry about your BS charges... Not only will you get off, but I suggest a civil suit against NYC. (you have probably already thought of that I'm sure) From the sound of things, you are going to have MASSIVE support, and maybe you can get cash enough to eat well for long time, or maybe even to fund a transgender defence organization. At any rate, good luck, and I'll be there on your court date.

BJ

PS Can someone please post the general time of Dean's court date... It is on March 6th, correct?

I received an email passed along with the whole story by the person arrested. It seems he was arrested for not showing his ID and trying to walk away while a policeman was asking him questions. Note too that the policeman had had a long day working in the cold and was probably not in the mood to hear insubordination from what would appear to most people as a woman (?) in a men's room. Im not pro-cop, but I am pro-people and understand how hard working people can be taxed and aggravated. The cop obviously could have handled the situation differently, but so could have the transgendered person.
Does anyone think it unusual that 99.9% of the population would think it odd that a woman would be in the men's room? I inferred from the report that the policeman was perplexed why a woman was in the men's room. Its an act of hubris to assume that the world is just going to respond to someone's self-proclaimed gender identity and not respect what to almost everyone is self-evident rules of appropriate behavior regarding bathrooms.
If this particular transgendered person wants respect, perhaps he should not project the air of gender ambiguity to a policeman after a long tense day of protests. As well, it would seem some courtesy to the police is in order in such ambivalent cases.
This is, I think, the opinion of your average person not 'clued in' to the oh so horrible life of the transgendered.

Go to  http://www.nyc.gov/html/mail/html/mailnypd.html to email the NYPD Commissioner about this. I'm about to write him a letter -- oh, and there are phone numbers on their site too, if you're better on the phone than I am...

Anyone know of anywhere to stay up-to-date on this? Or is anyone planning any sort of rally of support for the court date, etc? I'm in NYC and would lend my support and I know of a group of people that would as well if we knew where and when we were needed.

I 'm in paris France and I'm quiet shocked by this. Eventhough I'm far away I'm right there behind u. Keep fighting.

Dear 'No Tears Here",

A man was arrested for using the men's restroom.

What part of this are you having trouble understanding?

It wasn' t about "doing his job". It was a simple demonstration of force.

I wouldn't go writing letters unless you know the facts. Ref. attentive's post.

Look at the picture. You know there were more cops there than this. All because someone was getting harrassed in the john! Incredible and medieval. Doesn't the NYPD have something better to do, like keep the streets safe from violence?

I expect this will be a tg stonewall, eh? But here's what it comes down to: IF the guy was not legally recognised as a man, then what he did was illegal. Simple. I doubt it would really require all that many police to take care of the problem.

If however, he had his sex legally changed to male, he's got one HELL of a case for a lawsuit.

Legal or not, he should not have been arrested for trying to go to the bathroom. I mean, what if the situation were the opposite, what if he went into the women's room b/c that may have been a 'legally correct' move on his part, but what are the ladies in that restroom going to do over seeing a man in their 'safe space'? What if they made a big fuss about him being in that room, and then he could have gotten picked up for still being in the wrong bathroom.

I think that this incident points out the urgent need for universal gender free bathrooms.

Now, I don't know what this guy looks like, but I would bet that the only reason he was using that bathroom was because in the women's room, he would be verbally harassed and/or the cops would have been called in on him much quicker. Do you really think a man w/a cunt would want to subject himself to a men's bathroom unless there was no other choice? Men's bathrooms are by far scarier and dirtier than women's--some don't even have stalls. Androgenous folks use them because most men just don't give a damn... if you look at someone too long in there, they'll think you're gayboy. So each individual weighs out the options...verbal harassment every time in the girls space, or hoping for safety and a stall in the men's room. My ID says male and you would never be able to pick me out of a line of biomales, but I still have to worry every time I go to the bathroom. AND I CRIED FOR YOU CAUSE THIS MADE ME SO SAD!

in response to "attentive"'s assessment of this situation:

The slippage in your commentary between "transgendered [man]" and "woman" is telling. In one breath, you say "the transgendered person" could have "behaved differently" (am I to take this to mean that he could have showed his ID? He should have used the women's bathroom? He should have held it, peed in a coke can, or perhaps just peed somewhere against the wall between or beyond the two gender-segregated bathrooms in question?). In the next breath, you refer to him as a "woman in the men's bathroom." This is simply incorrect. Your lip service to transness in noted, but that you refer to a trans man as a woman indicates an egregious lack of knowledge and understanding as to the meanings of trans. (I encourage you, and others, to visit the links that were posted under the caption "resources for being a trans ally" above).

By the way, the distance between a cop's being "perplexed" by a person's presence in the allegedly "incorrect" bathroom and that cop blocking said person's exit, pushing him against the wall, and dragging him away is significant. Do not mince words, my friend. On one hand, there is confusion, which may be alleviated with dialogue and conversation. On the other hand, there is violence, which is not an act receptive to dialogue in this case. The cop was not "perplexed." He was unjustifiably angry and responded with violence. Gender insecurity runs deep in this culture. You seem to have bought it hook line and sinker.

In addition, your condescension at the "oh so horrible life of the transgendered" is also noted. I'd like to say for the record that I am rather fond of my transness, and have a lot of fun with it. The only time it gets "horrible" is when I or my friends and fellow trans folk are beaten up, thrown in jail, or told it is "our fault" for causing such inconveniences since it would really just be easier to stick with a gender expression that best fits with our birth-assigned sex/gender (presuming it is unambiguous). In the same vein, are we willing to argue that we all better simply give up on this anti-globalization thing? The oh so horrible life of the anti-globalization protester is plagued by arrests, surveillance, violence, and harassment. Shall we all just say fuck it? We anticapitalists are really inconveniencing cops and much of the U.S. population. Perhaps we should call off the protests, buy sweatshop-made clothes, stay out of the streets (after all, some of our protests ARE illegal... and laws are always correct... can you even believe they ever changed that one about women voting, and the one about African Americans counting as a fraction of a person?).

My point here (duh) is that inconveniencing and confusing people is not a crime, and other people's fears and issues have NEVER been reason to quit doing or being something or someone you think is right or makes sense. Because you, Attentive, and others think that the polarized, dichotomized gender system which allows only for the possibility of male/man and female/woman is correct does not preclude others from arguing otherwise. Furthermore, it does not preclude others from living, being, and enacting genders that are not one of the two that are made available. The fact that you think so exposes your ignorance and reliance on your privilege. And one of our big problems in these progressive and radical struggles in which we are all hopefully engaged is the failure to interrogate our privileges.

It is a step in the right direction that we are incorporating a dialogue about transness and gender in our larger political discussions. I expect that it will bring non-trans people to examine their privileges and to take responsibility as trans allies. I hope most people do not take the position of Attentive. He or she seems to be employing the victim-blaming line that keeps prisons populated with low income people and people of color, and keeps rich white dudes sitting on enormous piles of cash and property. And that is simply unacceptable.

What? the Police haven't better things to do? As if the person wouldn't have been hassled if they went to use the Ladies' section . . . .

We are having a Protest this Thursday, 02/07/02 at Noon, at:
1 Little West 12th Street bet. 9th Ave and Hudson Street. ESPA is denying our inclusion in the SONDA bill. This type of Violence, Discrimination and Bigotry will continue if we are denied our Civil Rights by not being included into the SONDA bill. Who will not be protected if ESPA denies our inclusion into the bill: Transgender, Two Spirit, Gender Queers, Stone Butches, Dykes, Drag Queens, Drag Kings, Transexuals, Fem Gay Men, All who Look Gay, Androgynous queers, Masculine Women, Cross Dressers, Intersexed/hermaphrodites, Drag Artists/Performers, All Outside Sex/Gender Stereotypes. Please Come And Give Your Support!! Lets take a stand together against this Insanity! For More Info: (718)832-1080

We are having a Protest this Thursday, 02/07/02 at Noon, at:
1 Little West 12th Street bet. 9th Ave and Hudson Street. ESPA is denying our inclusion in the SONDA bill. This type of Violence, Discrimination and Bigotry will continue if we are denied our Civil Rights by not being included into the SONDA bill. Who will not be protected if ESPA denies our inclusion into the bill: Transgender, Two Spirit, Gender Queers, Stone Butches, Dykes, Drag Queens, Drag Kings, Transexuals, Fem Gay Men, All who Look Gay, Androgynous queers, Masculine Women, Cross Dressers, Intersexed/hermaphrodites, Drag Artists/Performers, All Outside Sex/Gender Stereotypes. Please Come And Give Your Support!! Lets take a stand together against this Insanity! For More Info: (718)832-1080

We are having a Protest this Thursday, 02/07/02 at Noon, at:
1 Little West 12th Street bet. 9th Ave and Hudson Street. ESPA is denying our inclusion in the SONDA bill. This type of Violence, Discrimination and Bigotry will continue if we are denied our Civil Rights by not being included into the SONDA bill. Who will not be protected if ESPA denies our inclusion into the bill: Transgender, Two Spirit, Gender Queers, Stone Butches, Dykes, Drag Queens, Drag Kings, Transexuals, Fem Gay Men, All who Look Gay, Androgynous queers, Masculine Women, Cross Dressers, Intersexed/hermaphrodites, Drag Artists/Performers, All Outside Sex/Gender Stereotypes. Please Come And Give Your Support!! Lets take a stand together against this Insanity! For More Info: (718)832-1080

Yeah so some hateful people are trying to distract this community from the task at hand- affirming queer and trans rights, and making sure all our loved ones (humanity) are safe.

There is *nothing* illegal in walking away from a cop, unless you're being detained or arrested. And then you have to be told why, immediately, in words.

For more info, I suggest The Natl Lawyers Guild  http://www.nlg.org
or the Peoples' Law Collective  http://www.peopleslaw.org

poop. sorry. that's the people's law library, not the peoples law collective.

it *IS* illegal for a man to use the women's room and vice versa. A friend of mine nearly got kicked out of Disneyland for this, and he was told that because he was really a she, it was illegal for "her" to be in the men's room.

Is this not the case in NYC? If so, I'd be surprised.

Further, a recent court case here in Cali made it legal for police to detain anyone found without proper ID. If the person refused to show ID and then fled (whether you're walking or running, if you're ignoring the cop telling you to stop, you're fleeing) the cop acted appropriately. The more I hear about this the more I support what the cop did. I don't LIKE it, mind you, but the guy was stupid, and he's getting what's coming to him.

I have this crazy problem where I just assume that everyone I meet thinks precisely the same way that I do, which gets me into trouble when attempting to converse with middle managers, other people's parents, and strangers at the occasional straight parties I attend in order to gawk and marvel. But hell! This is Indymedia! I expect--wrong, apparently, again--that the folks here will at least share some basic principles and that conversation will leap from those things we take as axiomatic into endlessly complex and revisable understandings of theory and politics and bodies and tactics and competitive sport. That's why I seek out alternative news sources. Some things are basic, including the one where binaries are bad for everybody, including the people 'comfortable' on either side. He shoulda just shown his ID (as if that would have solved anything). And then we all could have gone home and gotten a nice, comfy rest and woken up to a world structured on racism, exploitation, capitalist fiendishness, and violently policed gender normativity. That last one matters, and is worth your mourning. It's intimately connected with the rest of it, intimately connected to the shit we all went out to resist over the weekend, and should resist every single time we take a breath. You gotta fight to win. You don't show your ID to win.

"I expect this will be a tg stonewall, eh? But here's what it comes down to: IF the guy was not legally recognised as a man, then what he did was illegal. Simple. I doubt it would really require all that many police to take care of the problem.

If however, he had his sex legally changed to male, he's got one HELL of a case for a lawsuit."

There is nothing simple about this, as far as I can see. I am trans and an activist, and I'm still having trouble getting my head around its ramifications.

First, let's not forget that the arrest took place during anti-WEF protests, and that the 'bathroom three' were all participating in the march to the Waldorf-Astoria. It is a well-known tactic of cops, all over the world, to pick off protesters by arresting those who look different or are not protected by their white skin, gender conformity, or visible heterosexuality. Anti-corporate protesters really need to start thinking about ways to counter those tactics and to protect people who are vulnerable to those tactics. It might also be a good way for the anti-corporate activist 'movements' (at least, I know my local one could do with this) to look at its own transphobia, homophobia, racism and so on.

Secondly, please talk to any person, trans or non-trans, who looks even vaguely ambiguous or fucks with gender/sex, and you will come to understand that going into a public toilet is never straight-forward. There are always considerations: will you get harrassed more in the women's or the men's? If you're transitioning, going to the toilet of your own gender choice (sorry the words are getting cluttered) is often a way of performing that gender, producing yourself as that gender -- let alone transfolk who spend years passing in the right toilets as a matter of course.

Thirdly, have you ever tried to change your legal sex? Do you know how complicated it is? How much money it costs? How much legal support you need? It's not just a matter of walking into a government office and saying 'Hey I'm a man now'. Which is a situation which obviously needs to be rectified, and if any good can come out of this, maybe it's that attention can be brought to the very messy and transphobic legal jumble that surrounds transfolks' attempts at self-determination.

I wanted to comment to a post by craig who gave some resources for non-trans folks. as a trans/genderqueer person, i just wanted to add my voice because some of the links craig offered actually are not completely supportive of all trans/genderqueer people. i thank craig for the post though and want to offer these links/resources too-

 http://www.butchdykeboy.com/reliefmap/ New York should do this! It is a great idea!
My Gender Workbook or Gender Outlaw by Kate Bornstein
www.transfeminism.org
www.glaad.org/org/projects/cultural/trans_visibility/index.html

its good to see so many people fighting transphobia!

Cops need to chill. He just wanted to pee. There really was no reason at all for any of this.

In reading statements discussing Deans arrest, I am shocked yet sadly not so shocked at the transphobic/classist statements being made by activists.

Aside from the fact that Dean should have the right to go in whatever bathroom he feels safest in, and none of us nor the cops have any right to decide that, I think we should check our classism amongst other things. As people discussing events that happened surrounding the protests of globalization and capitalism one should consider the capitalist ramifications of the statement "If the guy was not legally recognized it was illegal" and "if he were to have surgery THEN he would have one hell of a case" etc.

First, since when is police brutality excuseable simply because it wasn't legal, and secondly how many people in this world operate "illegally" simply because they are not "legally recognized" every day? Poor people who don't "legally" have a home but live in a box on the same street corner for years, same-sex partners who live in the same house and raise kids and are not "legally" recognized parents etc. To become "legally" recognized as male a transperson has a SLEW of hoops to jump through and alterations to make in his body/life that for whatever physical, mental or social reasons may not want to endure, not to even begin to say how much it costs to change ALL of your records and how many windows you have to go to and declare yourself trans OVER AND OVER again.

Second, Gender based on body parts is 1. extremely problematic... do 'yer own reading on that one and 2. invasive, risky etc. not to mention the THOUSANDS of dollars for the operation, time off work and travel to the few places where one can access safe and good surgery.

Gender doesn't work in the 'check the box' way the system would like to think so for trans/gender variant people simply existing is illegal. for people to be born with the body parts they feel fit their gender is a privledge people may need to examine, because not only is it a completly different emotional and social road to travel but an economic one as well. Classism is not okay. Police brutality is never okay. The transphobic comments made in response to this case are condoning both of these factors which seem to be two points the WEF was unified on. Maybe it's time for some self-education all ye brilliant thinkers of the world who can de-construct class when it doesn't have to do with our bodies...it's time to take gender liberation a step furter. Let's think outside of the box in all our phobias and isms...


-Grover


-and thank you for your power Dean. and thanks to all the rad trannies and trans-allies that did post amazing support and education on this board-

Are all NYC cops crazy? Thank God the law here in Australia makes this impossible.

This is a terrible incident. It reinforces the fear that many TS/TG have regarding the police.
I live in Vancouver, B.C. and would be hesitant to call the local city police if assaulted - I fear that I would be more likely to be arrested...
Our RCMP are generally better trained (they are a federal police force) and have been very good dealing with TS/TG. As to the city police, one detective is a TS and transitioned on the job to much fanfare. I understand she requested a transfer as she was not sure that she would be backed up when the need arose.

I'm an American tranny living in Australia for the past 9 years.

Last year the State Parliament of Victoria passed what is known informally as the Transgender Bill of Rights. It is a part of the Equal Opportunity Act which guarantees our rights against sexual discrimination and the ability to use whatever toilet we identify with.

If I am out and about as Mick - I use the men's room. If I am in drag as Julie Canoolie - I'll powder my nose in the ladies.

Please see full details at  http://www.eoc.vic.gov.au/materials/brochures/genderid.htm

I think that if a person feels they should use the mens or the womens room, they should be allowed to do so. As a member of the GLBT community, I often desire a place where I can go and do my business without h aving to endure the stares and the comments that many of us face. Like Dean said....Just let us pee!!!

Julia Kupper
Evansville, IN

I hate to tell you folks something of a technical nature, because the entire arrest is BS from a public complaint....but those uniforms.....shields, patches, even the helmets....aren't NYPD!!!!

Wheelmen (the only ones in the city that wear breeches and Dehner field boots) have light blue stripes on their pants. The shoulder patches are on the wrong arm as well for a specialty unit. (Example,  http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/html/transportation/duve.html)

Anyone want to report the facts on where this really happened, and what department actually did this? This most certainly the work of the NYPD....who has a HUGE contingent of gay and lesbian, as well as TG officers ( http://www.goalny.org/)

Crimeteam

Hey all, thanks for keeping the great dialogue going. We've set up an email account to stay in touch w/folks who want to support us in court and in other organizing projects around this. So email  LetUsPee@yahoo.com with your contact info and we'll all get together to raise hell and fight for trans liberation. thanks!

krist, this is really disturbing and making my head hurt with anger.
and it makes me wonder... I'm a passable post-op Dutch teenage transgirl with (still) a male ID (takes an eternity to change that), so officially I'm NOT allowed to use the ladies room if I'm ever in NYC? so what would happen if I'd walk into the men's bathroom, and then when a cop has a problem with that show him my male ID? I'll sure give it a try if I ever get the chance... Good luck to you Dean, behind you 100%

Hi- I just wanted to show my support to Dean and the people trying to use the bathroom and of course support to all for the entire abundance of issues transgendered folks face. Must be nice for them to have such privilege and to be so unaware of it that they can deny someone a basic pee and feel righteous about it.....WHOO WHOO _THE STOPPED A MAN FROM PEEING!!!!!!!!!! WAY TO GO! WHAT A DAYS WORK, HUH? - Theresa Rogers, Boulder, CO

A picture is worth a thousand words, it's true. I find this misapplication of taxpayers money and police and legal power utterly appalling. I had hoped such a picture would have been taken in the Philippines under Marcos, years ago, but here we see it in NYC, and recently at that. This is very bad PR for NYC. We do not need bathroom police running amok, foaming at the mouth, enforcing their idea of gender propriety. Is NYC really this far behind the times? Very sad.

Some here say the cop was within the law and doing his job. If that is true, it is all the more sad.

i was involved in the advocacy on this case, and I've spoken to two lawyers, one a NY criminal law expert, who both told me that it was not illegal for dean, even if he has "female" on his ID to be in the men's room. legally, being in a public restroom that does not conform to one's legal gender is not "trespass." additionally, as someone pointed out earlier, refusing to show ID to a cop is not illegal. there was absolutely no legal basis for dean's arrest. he attempted to leave even before being given an "order to disperse" and was restrained by the officer without any legal reason.
i haven't personally researched this law, but that is the update i hear from the lawyers i've talked to. hope that clears things up a little.

Is the N.Y.P.D. back to it`s old tricks of 1969 before they lost a battle at Stonewall against Transgendered people? Why can`t two citizens use a restroom of the sex they identify mentally? Why is that arresting officer there and not recovering the bodies of his brothers at the World Trade Center? Would that officer arrest Mayor Rudy when he was dolled up as a female for some function a few years ago? Was the arresting officer named Barney Fife?

I think the N.Y.P.D. needs another lesson like the one at Stonewall 1969 and understand WE WILL NOT TAKE IT ANYMORE!

I think the arresting office ought to be put on a detail in which he dresses as a female to catch criminals.

Debra J. Martin
Vancouver, Washington

"oh i'm not transphobic, but the WORLD is."
= a parent saying the same thing to their kid who's trying to come out to them as queer, in the supposed interest of that kid's "welfare."
uh-huh. yeah.
thanks for being such a well-intentioned member of the gender police. i feel so free and supported knowing people like you might be in line for the bathrooms with me after protests.

Just a tought....wonder what the 'mean' size of these fine 'boys'' cocks might be???
Perhaps they were suffering from penis envy???
And I am absolutely certain that they all took this job for those skin tight oh so sexy leggings..er...pants they have on!

Ya know you never can be too careful 'bout folks who need to be...might cause a flood or sumthin'

Keep your head held high Dean...one of these days every one of those nice cops will desperately need to sh-t and thei only option will be a restroom labelled for the opposite gender of their own....I can just see them squirming with profound discomfort......

siochain,
Gav
GWM,Northern MN

As a transsexual woman reading this article has probably completely turned me off to going to the US. I'm sorry but how what should be the most advanced and civilised society on the planet can treat someone like this completely amazes me.
There's a lot still wrong with the law in the uk but there is no way a transgendered person wanting to carry out a completely natural function would be dealt with like this by the police!

I'd just like to say that the treatment of this poor man was absolutely revolting. What *was* he supposed to do, if using the men's room was a crime? I think this could and should have been handled with a lot more dignity.

We are fortunate in Melbourne, Australia, that the Parliament of Victoria changed the Equal Opportunity Act last year to include what we call a "Transgendered Bill of Rights".

Among other things, it states that I can legally use whatever toilet I identify with.

If I am out and about as Mick, I use the male toilets. If I am nightclubbing as Julie Canoolie, I can legally powder my nose in the female toilets at any location.

Full details of the law are available at:

 http://eoc.vic.gov.au/materials/brochures/genderid.htm

Ok, it's bad enough they have to follow us into our bedrooms to tell us what to do and not to, but it is really out of hand when you get followed into the BATHROOM to be told the same...you are in our thoughts down here in the pits of redneck hell, Kentucky...fight the good fight, may all your charges be dropped, my brothas,.....

people wonder why no one likes cops.
this is a perfect example.

the way people, not races or sexual preferences, but humans are treated by other humans... is totally unexceptable.

we're all people, no matter who we love, sleep with, and/or what bathroom we chose to use.

I would like tosay that I admire the three people in this situation. Courage to face adversity is always admirable because few people ever really stand up for what they believe in if it involves personal turmoil. Society needs to wake up and realize life has never been black and white.
The people who force others to conform to their standards should realize that they are not helping the world like they think but they are jeopardizing the well being of humanity.

...can't someone just explain to cops that transgendered folks aren't dangerous? Even if they have an attitude? Why do we have to throw them in jail to get the message across? But I guess if that is what we have to do to get the Truth across, then that is what we have to do! Good Luck, and I hope it makes someone listen.

I had no idea you could be arrested in the US for failing to carry/show ID. What kind of police state has the US become?

ya no, everyday we have to fight our own battles, now we dont flaunt and push ourselves on ANYone....but then just because someone realizes we are different then them, they insist on tearing our lives up. so much for *freedom* in this country. s' time for the usa and the world to realize we are ALL different, supposed to be, and its time for everyone to ACCEPT others for who they are, and WAIT until something is done to them Personally before they decide to Judge! having this *line up* of officers s' ludicrist, all because a guy wanted to go pee. that was invasion of PRIVACY!!!!

I cant beieve how ignorent and inapropreate the police are.One would think that the cops would be conserned with real crime rather than hurrassing ligetimate citizens.bigotry is alive and well in the nypd.

i think its unfair and they should sue them

The Harry Benjamin International Gender Dysphoria organization, who set the "Standards of Care" which are followed by medical doctors and psychiatrists/psychologists, (and which is made up of Doctors, Psychiatrists, Psychologists)...... requires transpeople to live and work in the gender which they identify for at least one year as part of their treatment before being allowed to have any surgery for gender change. This is the treatment recommended and which we must follow. These medical and psych professionals recognize our condition as valid medical condition, and prescribe the only treatment proven to be sucessful.
Unfortunately, they take no action to provide us legal protection during this stage of our lives, where we are required to live as one gender to qualify for surgery while not yet having the ability to change out ID to match until after surgery. This means that by "following Doctor's orders" we are placed in a situation where we are subject to arrest........ what choice do we have?
Until the time where our condition is widely accepted as a
valid medical condition and/or the "congenital birth defect" it has been shown to be, we will continue to face harassment, discrimination, abuse, ridicule, and even arrest. It is high time the medical/mental health professional address this issue, and for the Harry Benjamin folks to work to alleviate this Catch-22 situation which they place us in.
I too faced the possibility of arrest for using a public bathroom years ago, fortunately I was far luckier than Dean was and got released with a "warning".

I am absolutelu outraged at the events of the past weekend that led to the arrest of several individuals for - what, restroom violations?
Some questions to consider ...


Don't these 'peace' officers have a precinct leader?

Where in blue blazes is the NYC Police Commissioner?

Why does he (they) allow those under his charge to commit crimes (that seems to me to be what happened here)?

Haven't these so called public servants (also known as New York City's Finest) learned *anything* after the many incidents involving transsexuals?


Finally, do we need another incident like Stonewall in order to get the message out to these 'authorities' that they are harassing the very people they are supposed to be protecting? And that the last time anybody checked, the Constitution was still in effect.

Am I angry about this?

Aren't you?

One only hopes that the judge has brains enough to not only throw these cases out, but to make it absolutely clear that actions such as this by the police (as well as others, like cab drivers, EMTs, etc.) will not be tolerated.

Also, it appears to me that many of the letter writers who apparently support the police in this did not leave their e-mail address. Just one of those things that make you go "Hmmmm".

And to the writer who says that these are not NYPD ... if it turns out that they are *not* NYPD, then I would consider it inflammatory, not to mention a fraud, to have given the impression that they were, and that they were in action with relation to the bathroom incident. Inflammatory actions and fraudulent actions are something that we as human beings need to address; such actions are immoral and only hurt any cause they are used to supposedly defend.

Steph

well...there goes my almost six months of "not being so angry with law enforcment"....

*sigh*

I'm right behind you, hon. I'll be sending this page to EVERYONE I know.

love on ya...

well...there goes my almost six months of "not being so angry with law enforcment"....
*sigh*
I'm right behind you, hon. I'll be sending this page to EVERYONE I know.

love on ya...

Funny that as much as this country supposedly supports human rights, we are so adept at denying them to anyone who is different.
Seeing that the US is a melting pot of different peoples, you would think that by now we would have learned to accept individual differences.
"Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness" unless someone takes offense to your choices, then Freedom of Religion falls to the wayside and becomes freedom to impose your beliefs on others.
I only wish people could read and understand the teachings of Jesus without picking out things to promore their own personal agenda. I wish people would allow others the chance to live their own lives as they choose. Just because you don't like something gives you no right to interfere in another's life. If it is not hurting you then mind your own damned business.

Even after we have surgery and get our ID changed to reflect our "new" gender we face legal difficulties. This is often due to the lack of legal definitions..... is a post-operative transsexual legally a man or a woman, do we define this on their birth gender or the gender thay have physically become (the gender which reflects our true inner gender identity)?
When a doctor defines your gender at birth you are being judged on the outward physical appearance rather than WHO you truely are. Then the law tries to say that IS who you are regardless of other valid indicators and scientific evidence, and often claims this cannot be changed.
We have learned not to judge who is a criminal by physical appearance as they used to try to do many years ago, we have learned not to judge a person by race (again appearance) but rather WHO they are, based on actions and deeds.
When will they learn that sex/gender are not just black and white, but many shades of gray. It is not soley based on the prescence or lack of a penis.
Who are you..... your mind or your body? My body is just a vessel which houses my mind, my being. My mind is who I AM, not my body.

short and not-so-sweet......WELCOME TO NEW YORK CITY.....THE CLOSED-MINDED, ARROGANT CESSPOOL OF THE EAST!!!!!!!

Having been raised in San Francisco and a habitual visitor to establishments where no one cares what gender you are (after all we ARE all the same), I find this interesting since this ocurred in NYC. Early in 1970, I visited a bar with my friend Howard. When I went to the bathroom, people of all persuasions were in there. There did not have any doors in the stalls and no one cared, or was interested in whether you had male genitilia or femal. I would have to conclude that that was the most relaxing bathroom I had ever entered. Although I am not labeled gay, I would have to identify myself with having no gender. Although I have female genetilia, I have always felt that I did not fit into the general mainstream of society, but also had no identification with any specific alternative groups, having identified with all of them. I wish you the best and get yourself an attorney who identifies with you, otherwise the courts can, and will, be cruel. People are afraid of admitting that they too mosst likely can identify with something that society condemns an aberrition. (Sorry about the apelling)

I'm a Boston transwoman, and when I first heard about this, I just shook my head. On my last job, someone filed a complaint against me for using the women's room, and I would have lost my job because I caused her discomfort. Fortunately, I was (and still am) on great terms with the management, so they covered it up as a favor, which was an awful way of dealing with this.
My current job has a couple gender-free bathrooms, but it really sucks that I can't use the traditional women's rooms without that niggling feeling that if anyone feel uncomfortable with me there, I'm out the door. It's a big company, and I haven't made friends with everybody (yet).
But this doesn't scare me nearly as much as the Bush administration's faith-based policies, the cop shakedowns closing local SM clubs, the huge budget cutbacks on education and health services, the dissolution of affirmative action programs, the Massachusetts Defense of Marriage Act, and the myriad of global conglomerates. I live in defiance of my fears.
Power to you, Dean. And I really hope that more people pass this story around, I've gotten great positive responses from my coworkers and family.

I am the parent of an FTM and live in NY which I was of the inmpression was a liberal place. My son lives in SF because of the openness. He's on a task force which communicates with the city gov't about the needs of the transgender community.NYC could use some training of it's police personnel. They need educating on this condition and so do all law enforcement personnel. This should never have taken place. The problem of bathrooms has to be addressed.

a fully equipped riot squad to decide wether a guy must use this or that bathroom? I trust most American people are a little more sensible than that...

so how are we supposed to feel about this?it is as if we have all gone back in time to the years when the whites and blacks had to use diffrent restrooms,waterfountins,etc.i hope all thise cops know just how dumb they are for arresting someone for using the bathroom....it just goes to show how careful we have to be sometimes.

this entire incident is completely disgusting. i am glad, though, to read that the man who (heaven forbid!) tried to pee, was not placed into the "male community" at the jail. who knows what could have happened there. and lord knows that the cops would not have tried to protect him.
good luck to everyone involved,
randy

This should of never happened the way it did. When Dean wanted to leave the restroom there was no need for the polics to get physical and then charge them with resisting arrets, etc. What the hell is wrong with these cops anyway? The Judge is even worse by being as ignorant as the Police by asking about your genitalia. Please let me know the when, where, and time of the day you have to go to court . I want to be there for support. Being a TG myself, I know the b/s we go through all the time. You are not alone in this BRO....Count on it!

Oh, this photo makes me feel so safe, now that I know that our wonderful and heroic police officers, defenders of the peace, have stopped this "heinous" criminal from "defiling" the sanctity of the men's public restroom. I am a little disappointed to see, however, that no tanks or helicopters were brought in, just in case the situation got out of hand, I mean, really, this is the most important thing that the cops could possibly have been doing to protect me and my family; nevermind the drug dealers, murderers, or thugs that could have been arrested while they were persecuting this man for his particular life-style choice, gosh, I mean, the idea that someone who wasn't actually born with a penis would "DARE" try to use the men's restroom is just the most awful thing in the world. What's next, women being allowed to vote? Freeing the slaves? I commend the NYPD for their excellent use of my taxpayer dollars.

You know, the whole argument about "his gender had an 'F' on it, so he should be in the women's restroom" is such BS. I don't give a crap if it is illegal, because my NYS driver's license has an 'M' on it, and I always use the women's restroom. I mean, come on, what's a person with C-cup breasts and shoulder-length hair, who is always called "ma'am" when in stores or restaurants, supposed to do??? I sure the hell don't have the $10,000 (minimum) it would take to get SRS and legally change that 'M' to an 'F'. To require that, in and of itself, is fucking classist as all hell. Just think of the large portion of the trans community who are homeless, who have to sell themselves so that they can afford the hundreds of dollar every month for hormone therapy, electrolysis, and counseling that they need to have if they want to get SRS (which most of them never will be able to get). I'm fortunate that I have prescription coverage that is keeping my HRT costs down to $30/month, but I'm also exploiting a hole in the prescription coverage system.

So, basically, I hear a few of you here, who seem to think that they know it all, telling me that I should be using the men's restroom, since my ID has an 'M' on it? And what happens if a cop harasses me for doing so? Or, even worse, what if some guy in the restroom starts harassing me, sexually, while I am in there? And if I am arrested, they WILL put me in the male population, where I will be the favourite morsel on the cell block.

No thanks...the "legal gender" regulations are classist, sexist (because alot of FTMs don't get full SRS, only "top surgery" and hysterectomy), and downright byzantine. Hell, there are some states that don't allow post-operative trans people to change their gender on their birth certificates. And when states, like NYS, require a birth cert for your license, you could be post-op and end up with the wrong gender on your license because you cannot change your birth cert.

The way that trans people in this country are treated is just totally wrong. We really have no rights if anyone finds out that we are trans. The fact that ESPA is pushing a SONDA bill that doesn't include trans-people is an insult to the trans people who started the whole gay rights movement at the Stonewall Inn.

it's so good to see y'all finally covering the issue of trans oppression & abuse within this society. hopefully next time you will not incorrectly assume that the gender of the person arrested/ victimized/ abused is whatever the authorities say it is. please remember that the power that they arrogate to themselves to determine, reveal, and enforce genders is part of the oppressive dynamic itself. _ask questions_ - mainstream media, courts & other institutions will not provide you with very many accurate facts.

I mostly try to not use public bathrooms. When I travel, it's unavoidable.

For those of you who have never had to face the threat of violence when making a choice of which bathroom to use-all I can say is that you have to have the ability to put yourself in someone elses shoes to understand.
No bathroom is right. If I go to the womens, people scream. If I go to the mens I face getting gay bashed, arrested or come on to half the time. This is part of my daily life.

On the flip side, I no longer live a lie. My outsides match my insides-and that necessary freedom makes me endure all the hassles of daily living in this 'free' society we have.

Loren

In order to "complete" their transition process, it is crucial for FTM or MTF individuals to use the public restroom that they would use as if they had already completed the full process of sexual reassignment. Part of the transition process includes practicing/living the behaviors of a bio-man or bio-woman, which include using the public restroom assigned for their sexes.

It would contribute to an individual's emotional and spiritual well-being if s/he were able to use the restroom that matches her/his physical appearance in the future. To deter this (in any way, shape, or form), which include the unfortunate and awful incident that occurred in NYC, brings confusion, pain, and an attack on one's dignity.

We must uphold the basic human rights of FTMs and MTFs, which include freedom from all forms of discrimination, the right to security of person, the right not to be subject to cruel and degrading treatment/punishment, etc.

I got the info about this story from an internet newsgroup and am absolutely disgusted by the whole thing. Isn't it typical that the police find it necessary to wear crash helmets and combat gear and carry guns in order to "deal with" a relatively small group of trans-people exercising their right to take part in the procedures at a court of law?

I feel so deeply sad and angry about the treatment of Dean and his friends at Grand Central Station. My partner faces daily anxiety when in public over which bathroom would be safest to use in a given situation. Once when he went with his "legal" gender and used the women's bathroom in our town a woman called security (luckily he avoided any confrontation)...I had always thought and heard that for Transmen the men's room was less likely to be problematic because guys care less, don't look at each other, etc. in bathrooms, but now I 'm not so sure. I'm behind the bathroom arrestees 100% -- keep fighting for your rights to be safe and respected by others, especially those ostensibly charged with serving and protecting! Time for me to become more active in the pursuit of civil rights for transgender folks as well.

I am a young FTM in Vancouver BC Canada and this article has really gotten to me. I avoid using the washrooms completely unless my bladder is about to burst because I'm too scared to be discovered in a men's room and have had people threaten to call security on me in woman's washrooms. I think it's really sad that TS people should have to go through this, I think everywhere should have a unisex washroom available.

How many police does it take to confront their own aggressive fear reacting and blind ignorance about transgender issues? Seems that New York's finest could use a transgender seminar or two.

If only these boys knew how silly, no rediculous they look taking themselves so seriously. It really does look like a scene from Saturday Nite Live episode. And this in in New York City? I think you would have been treated better here in San Diego. I am so sorry that you had to go through this. I certainly hope that your personal attorney can get the charges thrown out. This has got to be part of somebody's political campaign to prove how righteous they are so you can protect your families from crossdressers and transexuals.
Good luck to you,
Gwen

At the hearing for Intro 754 (now Intro 24 for 2002) last year, the Human Rights Commission head said transpeople are covered under existing law - and former Mayor Giuliani and former Council Speaker Vallone made the same assertion.

You have a right to use the bathroom matching your gender presentation. This was a false arrest by the police - there was no disorderly conduct and anything else was a matter of police provocation.

In fact, why not insist that the police officers involved be charged with assault?

All this waste of police manpower just over the use of a resr room. You would think major felony's would have first priority. But he saved the world from a wrongful pee.

I think most of us here agree that the "authorities" (NYPD? MIB?) treatment of Dean and his companions was outta line.

The question is, what's the best way to avoid this kinda crap? It strikes me that both az and the infamous "no tears here" pointed out the particular circumstances surrounding the WEF, ambiguity of "the law" were definite factors in the arrest. The "authorities" need to be taken to task on their rotten behavior and unproffesional protocol. However, it is "our" resposbonsibilty to figure out how most effectively handle these situations now and in the future. Will it help for those of us who DO have the "M" on our licenses/ID's (I don't, as I am a TV) to be prepared to whip 'em out in similar situations despite the intense internal morasses that may be in proccess? Is the solution to push for third gender bathrooms? Is there some kind of protocol we can follow to cover our butts in this sort of scenerio?

this is really sad. police brutality at its worst just because they see someone as different. they need to learn tolerance and stop with this kind of "bull shit".

aren't they handsome in uniform?! ;)

I am from Windsor, Ontario and spend a great deal of time in NYC. As a transsexual who uses female washrooms in the city on a regular basis, this really scares me. In the past I have not been as aware as I obviously should have been. This is a sad representation of policy and values as put forward by the NYPD. This puts us all at risk, last I checked the calendar said 2002, not 1920.

"You have a right to use the bathroom matching your gender presentation. This was a false arrest by the police - there was no disorderly conduct and anything else was a matter of police provocation."


I too thought this was the case in NYC. Here, in Seattle, we have anti-discrimination gender presentation law on the books. I've been told such cases are usually hard to prove. THIS particular situation, however, would be nothing short of open and closed. I sincerely hope you have similar protections there.

Arrests such as these happen, seemingly, on a constant basis. A friend of a friend in Victoria, BC sued an establishment after being tossed from it for, "Using the wrong restroom." I am entirely outraged at hearing about this sort of thing.

Dean, Craig, Ananda, my friends and I may be on the other side of the continent but we're with you. Rage more!

I think if the person idenify and looks the gender" they should let him use the mens bathroom" what happen if he use the womens bathroom? and if he looks like a male he did the right thing was to use the mens:)

I think the people who arrest him are a bunch of close minded people and they are the one's who is damaging the world by there self ignornace'

It is a very sad comment on the intelligence of the average American, that 40 years after the remarkable surgery endured by Christine Jorgenson, most Americans still fail to know or understand the difference between an individual who is transsexual, one who is transgendered, or one who cross dresses. What is even sadder is that American journalists and reporter appear to be no brighter or better informed than the vast majority.

The news media has an ethical responsibility to report events truthfully and accurately, and to do so in a manner that allows Americans to have a balanced perspective. It rushes to make heroes of New York City police officers, but underreports or fails to report the frequent occurrences of police brutality -- not only in New York, but throughout the country. Perhaps, this is the only reason why the NYPD has a 70% approval rating.

A transgendered man used the men's room. So what? Why did it even need to involve the police? Did he assault someone? Did he expose himself? Could he have possibly missed the urinal?

The motto of the New York City Police Department is "To Protect and Serve." Who were they protecting? Who were they serving?

In a city where the gay, lesbian, and transgendered communities bend over backwards to make the police more sensitive, why do they remain so insensitive? Why do they continue to be so indifferent and insensitive to the poor and to people of color?

I believe we need to include character, integrity and intelligence among the attributes we use to define heroes, and journalists as well. I believe all Americans, regardless of race or religion, or sexual or gender preferences need to expect a higher standard from both Media and the police.

I do hope that transgendered men will join me and my group, TG Woman, to address these and other issues concerning gender abuses.

Roberta Angela Dee

 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tgwoman/

This is I-N-S-A-N-E ! ! !

Like the stupid cop didn't have anything better to do! Then again, I guess arresting REAL criminals is much more dangerous...

Personally, I think we should hold a "pee-in" sometime soon at that very same bathroom!

i'm sorry you had to go through that.. it's awful.. personally i don't use public bathrooms just to avoid the stares and anything like this..

Who knew there was a bathroom swat team???

The new moral crusaders ... keeping America's bathrooms clear of any confusion! Expect no terrorist attack there!

...Sorry for the levity, but you have to admit that it's pretty amusing to see a bunch of cops in riot gear gaurding a bathroom! Who really looks stupid in this picture? Hopefully something good will come of this.

That is so sickening and really makes me realize how lucky I am to just be gay in this society! While cops are praised for Sept. 11, while they should be, they also seem to forget that they serve people. Not straight people, not white people, not men or women, but people. It is unbelievable that these dolts don't have to undergo some type of training to introduce them to the rest of the population that aren't EXACTLY like them. I guess talking publicly and being proud of who you are will be the thing that makes the change.

Did these cops have nothing better to do than police public bathrooms? Our tax dollars at work....

The photo would look the same if they were all wearing SS uniforms. Seems to be a good example of the manifesting right wing "suppress everything/everyone different (translated 'UnAmerican')". Mainstream conformists allowed only.

This looks like the Pres is in town, or maybe a normal evening in a Police State.

Boy, its pretty sad to think that this type of abuse still exists today. I was talking to my partner the other day about the fact that so many people have become so "extremely patriotic" since the Sept 11th attacks. But from the beginning I've said that I'm just as patriotic now as I was before the attacks. No more, and no less. Although my heart goes out to all of the victims of the attacks, I've always felt that its hypocritical to say "United We Stand as Americans" but yet we still have the "legal cruelty" that exists here today. During the years that I served in the Army, not once did I ever think that I was out there preparing to defend "only certain types" of Americans. I was prepared to defend "all Americans". But sadly enough, I truly believe that the ignorance out there is tremendous and nothing has or will really change in that regard. Like I've always said "The Most Violent Element In Society Is Ignorance."

I would hope that police that better things to spend their time on than harrassing people for trying to use a bathroom. I wonder if the charges would have been less if he had just peed in Grand Central Station.

At first, this story completely enraged me. As a pre-op, pre-hormone transman, I've sweated over which bathroom to use more than any non-trans person I know. When I am out or traveling, I use the men's room. When I'm with my family, I use the women's room, just because I haven't had that particular conversation with them yet, and don't feel that a public restroom is a good place for it. I dress as a man at work, but use the women's room for fear of someone filing a complaint and my job being put in jeopardy. I sometimes get surprised or confused looks from men, but get downright hostile looks from women in restrooms. It's obvious which I prefer. I fear confrontation in the bathroom, and fear violence of this kind more than anything.

As I said, at first I was enraged. Then I was scared. Now, I am sad. I've been disillusioned about this country since I got out of high school, and am not as surprised by this incident as I know many of you are. "America the Free" is an image we like to think of, but in reality it just isn't true. Yes, we are more liberal than many other countries in the world, but we have a real long way to go before being free is true for all of us.

I've been avoiding politics since I realized I'm trans. Being gay is risky, but being transsexual is worse. After six months of unemployment, I finally have a good job. They're rather liberal here, and support gays and lesbians, but I don't know how they'd react to a trans person. I'm hoping to keep this job for a few years, and ease into transition next year, when I plan on starting hormones.

I've been part of a transgender group in Syracuse called EON for about six months. They've offered to send me to Albany for a transgender conference in April. I was considering going before, but now I'm adamant about it. We have to fight for change, and now is the time to do it. This case is an excellent example of the contradiction of the law and the SoC. If a transsexual is required to live as their identified gender before they can have SRS, then ther MUST be legal safeguards in place. We must demand our rights, and that they be defined!

This case is absolutely rediculous. The man just wanted to pee, for God's sake. The police were harassing him for no good reason, and should not have arrested him at all. I have nothing but respect for the trans people involved, and hope you continue to fight the courts to clear your names. Make people see that the law needs to be changed. My thoughts are with you.

I invite all who are interested to go to Albany in April for the NYTA conference. I hope to see you there, and make our voices heard.

The website doesn't have much info up right now, but it's something to keep bookmarked.

 http://www.nytga.org/index.html

Take care,
Rev. Pat Moniz

Since when did PEEING become a crime?? Last time I checked, it was merely a bodiy function, certainly not something to be jailed over.

You know, the simplest of feelings must have crossed my mind as I was reading the article, such as being surprised and outraged. But you know, after reading it and thinking about it, I'm schocked by the lack of sense that these policemen showed in this situation.

What a bunch of horse shit! Arresting anyone because they needed to pee is so absurd. So I guess I'm a criminal if I come to NY and need to take a piss in a public restroom. I will cancel my vacation reservations to NY immediatly.I vote for a pee in. I will fly to NY on one condition, to take part in this most magnificent event accept I will hold my pee until the right time and then look out NY! Or is it possible to flood the NY police dept with little viles of pee from around the globe. Stand tall my friends you are not alone!

The question is why didn't this transgender individual comply with the police and show the I.D. to prove identity, then there wouldn't have been a problem, unless there was something else going on in the bathroom? There are alot of variables here, and the police will usually win. You have to know which battles to fight. The ones you fight may not always be the most relevant and may hurt your cause eventually. I am all for fair treatment of Gay/Lesbian/Bi/Trans/etc.. but we have to protect ourselves too. We have to be smart about our battles.

This is utterly disturbing and appauling. Since when is it a crime to use the bathroom? Where is the line drawn in the sand, or is there no longer a line for cops in NYC? I would hate to think that recent events have smudged out this line for decent citizens, simply trying to go to the toilet.

Honestly, NYPD, have you nothing better to do with your time?

Caitlen

I am a 19 year-old transwoman. And I've read about this case. And i can say nothing but the state is so obsessed in preserving all oppressive SYSTEM to control, manipulate, and discriminate each and everyone. This happens in America, and I would like to call on to everyone's attention what more in other countries, specially those with a CATHOLIC CHURCH deciding what is to be protected by law or not....such as mine. I hope what happens in New York must matter everywhere! Globalize not capital but HUMAN RIGHTS and the freedom to define and express one's gender identity is a part of it! LUMABAN TAYONG LAHAT!

t-girl wrote:
"I expect this will be a tg stonewall, eh?"

Sweety, get your facts straight. Stonewall *was* TG. It was a drag bar that had been raided by the vice cops one to many times. The G&L movement approprated it later as their rallying point. Not a problem, TG's have always been leaders the fight for civil liberties no matter the race, sex, or orientation ;)

"But here's what it comes down to: IF the guy was not legally recognised as a man, then what he did was illegal. Simple. I doubt it would really require all that many police to take care of the problem."

The problem is, that to get one's gender legally changed you have to live for a period of time as that gender. That means working, eating, *peeing* as that gender.

In other words, you have to break the law in order to do things legally.

this is ridiculous! geeez.. hey guys, u gonna win de battle alrite? stand strong!

Oh my what an issue this is! I am both a very strong supporter of LGBT rights and a woman who identifies herself as a woman. And I feel tremendously for both sides of this issue. As a woman, I know I would be very scared and uncomfortable if a man entered "women's only" space, even if it was a man who identified as a woman. Conversely, I can see how legally risky and all around intimidating it would be for a man who identified as a woman to enter a "men's only" room for fear of harrassment. I am not sure what a final solution to this problem is, but I appreciate the simle solution that perhaps less restrooms should be womens or mens, and more should be individual restrooms, as is often the case for a handicapped restroom. This room should be genderless, but should also only hold one occupant at a time. This relieves any gender bias, any need for cops to raise an eye, and any lack of a sense of security. This may sound like a simple-minded solution but sometimes a simple solution is the best kind. Until then, I would rather enjoy the peace of mind of being in the stall next to a man who identifies as a woman, than to believe that otherwise she would be in the mens bathroom feeling uncomfortable or risking her safety. I just hope all involved are willing to find a solution that accomodates the rights of transgendereds and transexuals, but continues to consider the concerns of women and men who are not transgendered and transexual.

This is outragous that the country I fought for is sooo repressive that a PERSON can not PEE in peace! The law needs to change or at least have a gender neutral restroom for ANYONE to use! The real problem here is people only have compassion for poeple just like them, if you sre different in ANYWAY then they want to remove you.

This is the Transgendered Stonewall! The TG rights movement has just received a big step forward, a cornerstone to build on! A rallying point from which we fight for our legal rights ! Dean, I support your decision to fight back and honor your courage. There is strength in numbers and we need to speak out for our voice to be heard!

Hello, I am a 25 yearold femme who loves the tranny boyz. This whole thing makes me want to cry. I am sorry this all happen to ya all, If there is anything I can do to help,let me know. I will stand by you all the way.
Sending my love and prayers,
Tracey

total bullshit

I think there is a great need for education in our Police Dept.'s and security people need to know that trans men are out there and what we are all about. Most certainly, true crime should be upheld, and I wouldn't call this a threat to anyone accept for our government, and security personnel's insecurities.

There have been times at concerts and events that women have had to go to the bathroom and could not wait and went to use the men's bathroom, and vice versa. No one seems to mind. "When you got to go you got to go". I think it is more a harassment and right to go to where and when you need to go issue. Yet our community sometimes has a tendency to put themselves into focus over trans issues when that really isn't the issue. What should be fought is the brutality and violence portrayed on the part of NY's finest over a mere trans man using a restroom and being harassed for ID when he obviously just needed go to the bathroom. Not to mention the medical complications being restricted from going to the bathroom. The humility, stress and embarassment is yet another totally different issue. I believe that if you are transgendered, FTM or MTF, you should have your ID in tact before you go to use restrooms, go to bars, etc. You only leave yourself open for lots of trouble. As a trans man myself, I never started using the men's room until I began to pass, and by that time, my ID was in check. Trans people just have to think ahead and be a little more careful about things, because as you can see things can get blown out of proportion real easy. It will take quite a number of more years before people are open to trans issues, look how long it took for gays to be understood? We still have a long way to go and a tough war to fight. It is an uphill battle, but education in diversity and the acceptance of it, explaining to people that we are not a threat to them, is very important. Yes, this was horrible and you would think that instead of taking this issue to its drastic end, they would be fighting REAL CRIME.

I am a New Zealander and live luckily in a country that does not have such viciously proactive police (in the main). Just looking at those emotionless faces in the picture makes me shudder to think of the fear and pain they could inflict on defenceless transgendered folk . The incarceration of Dean and his friends and their subsequent mental torture is totally inhuman and absolutely denies the existence of a Bill of Rights for those who do not fit easily into 'straight'society .

I am the significant other of a transman and the public bathroom situation is my biggest fear for the person I love most in this world. I will forever keep my eyes on the mens room door until my transman appears.....hopefully not beaten, bloody, or in handcuffs.
THIS HAS GOT TO STOP!!!!

Majority oppress minority, the strong oppress the weak.
all the human beings shortcoming

I think a big part of the problem is that cops are, in general, ignorant of transpeople and our issues. They don't see our chosen gender ID's as valid...as far as most cops seem to be concerned, a penis is the only valid qualifier to enter a men's room (and vice-versa), period...From their generally uneducated point of view anyone who enters a gendered bathroom with the "improper" genitalia is breaking the law, and therefore a criminal, unworthy of the protection or service the police are sworn to give the citizenry of a given jurisdiction. I think part of the problem is that many cops are not only simply ignorant, but willfully ignorant, because to making the effort to become educated about such issues would demand the police officers reconsider their long-held bigotries about anyone not fully within that narrow social box that our culture defines as "normal", and that would be perceived by many cops as a lessening of their authoritarian power.

This was pointed up to me long before the Grand Central situation occurred. About a year ago, I attended a Gender Conference that was held at Douglass College, the all-women's college of Rutgers University. The keynote speaker was Leslie Feinberg, and being an avid reader of her work, a friend and I (both of us pre-op MTF...the only ones in attendance) attended. During her address, Leslie spoke eloquently for several minutes about the discrimination transpeople face when we must use public restrooms. Throughout Leslie's speech and the program following, a big, burly, Rutgers U. cop stood quietly scowling in the back of the room watching the proceedings.

When there was a break in the program, several attendees, including myself, left the main room to go to the bathrooms. I, of course, being female-identified, went to the ladies room. As I entered, I looked over my shoulder to see that the Rutgers cop was following me. He didn't enter the ladies room, nor did he attempt to stop me from entering (I suspect, based on his demeanor, he was under specific orders not to do so because of the nature of the event), but he did station himself directly next to the ladies room entrance and warned each person as they entered that I was inside. The reaction of most of the conference attendees he warned (those I was able to hear) was, in essence, a resounding "So what?". As far as I could tell, not a single person chose not to enter the ladies room because of his warning...

This experience taught me that when ignorance is willful, even the most well-spoken and effective pleas for simple fairness and respect will fall on deaf ears. This cop had just witnessed one of our community's greatest activists make the best case I've heard for rest room equity, and the moment it was over he began to display his anti-trans bigotry as if Leslie had never spoken a word. Education only works when people are willing to be educated...otherwise, it's like (forgive the pun) pissing into the wind...

Peace and Power,

Becky

You know, as a fully represented straight white male in America, I never thought I'd live to see the day when we would have a crisis over the right to urinate. What a pity our Founding Fathers didn't bother to establish that we were all created equal...oh wait, what a sorry bastard I turned out to be...I missed that bit in the beginning. So too must have New York's finest. I wonder how many of them would fair if we made snap judgements about them after they'd knocked back a few beers at a ball game? It really shouldn't make me so shocked that other countries readily see and point out our lack of a moral backbone. If a transgendered man can serve his country (legally), vote (legally), and pay taxes (which technically pay the salaries of those public servants who are "Protecting & Serving")...then by god, it should be our American Right to utilize a public facility like anyone else.

Of course, I could be wrong...and I served in the Army during the Cold War fighting Communism for nothing.

After reading the following, I felt I had to post a response..."No tears here
by be attentive to real suffering 12:54pm Tue Feb 5 '02



I received an email passed along with the whole story by the person arrested. It seems he was arrested for not showing his ID and trying to walk away while a policeman was asking him questions. Note too that the policeman had had a long day working in the cold and was probably not in the mood to hear insubordination from what would appear to most people as a woman (?) in a men's room. Im not pro-cop, but I am pro-people and understand how hard working people can be taxed and aggravated. The cop obviously could have handled the situation differently, but so could have the transgendered person.
Does anyone think it unusual that 99.9% of the population would think it odd that a woman would be in the men's room? I inferred from the report that the policeman was perplexed why a woman was in the men's room. Its an act of hubris to assume that the world is just going to respond to someone's self-proclaimed gender identity and not respect what to almost everyone is self-evident rules of appropriate behavior regarding bathrooms.
If this particular transgendered person wants respect, perhaps he should not project the air of gender ambiguity to a policeman after a long tense day of protests. As well, it would seem some courtesy to the police is in order in such ambivalent cases.
This is, I think, the opinion of your average person not 'clued in' to the oh so horrible life of the transgendered."

To this I say, Please! Stop you're drug induced day dream of the "hard working cop" and the "miscreant tranny"! First and foremost, I am not transgendered...I'm a man born & raised. This has nothing to do with the outrage I feel over this situation. I too have served my country, serving many long and frustrating hours in the cold, under the active berrating berage of protesters. This is no excuse. If you are entrusted with power and tasked with protecting the public...you are to do so or get the hell out of the way for those who are willing and able to do so my friend. I don't know where you live but the lawmakers have saw fit in my neck of the woods to pass a law several years ago that not only allowed but gave women the "right" to use men's restrooms if the women's was too busy. At the time I thought this a ridiculous waste of public time and effort to enact a law to state such an obvious solution to a common problem.

Well, if YOU are any indication, I was naive to be sure. If we have people making excuses for the abuses of power and position that occur in our society, then how do we expect our children to learn what is right, moral, and good? My god, this all happened AFTER Sept. 11...does this make any sense to you that we're worried about who is using the correct restroom? If a police officer asked to see my identification in any place, with just cause, I'd have no problem complying...but when I'm trying to go to the restroom? I think I'd walk away too...and this is coming from someone who's been in the "Authorities' shoes."

Next time, leave an email address so I don't have to show my disgust with you in public.

Firstly, if the event is legitimate...then if there were some sort of verifiable news link/corroboration it would make this more compelling (IMO). Secondly, we are well inside the 21st century...so any such event, if legitimate, does not reflect well on the advancement of human beings...especially when it occurs in or near a cosmopolitan zone/city. Finally...if legit, keep fighting the gender wars, out of the closets everyone!!!!