wow, another workers world party picnic?cool!!!!

"wow, another workers world party picnic?cool!!!!"

Well, you know, I was going to go to the mass event organized by the anarchists but it turns out there wasn't one!

sorry, should we be boring too and spend gobs of money telling people what they already know?
hmm. i dont think so.

I believe Troops Out Now is a coalition initiated by IAC, not ANSWER. ANSWER mobilized for Fayetteville, not New York.

Get your facts straight before you go bashing organizations you don't like.

Within bounds, I think thinking out loud, as the author did above, is to be lauded. It takes courage, especially as using one's own name can backfire. For example, something said years ago can come back to haunt you. On the other hand, those whose consistently post using pseudonyms never have to worry about their names being dragged through the muck and mire.

Lance's article is too divisive. On the other hand, divisions seem to be there in the community at large already, as has been featured recently. Perhaps they need to be spoken about.

Sometimes it seems the internet exacerbates differences. Sometimes though there might be some merit in some criticism, even if presented harshly.

People aren't static. We are dynamic and capable of change, adapting, adopting and synthesizing information and hopefully becoming better people in the end.

What I would caution the activist community on is that some of the pressures on the anti-war movement are external.

Here’s how the ADL regarded the last year’s national day of outrage.

The two largest antiwar protest organizations in the U.S. are United for Peace and Justice (UPJ) and International ANSWER. In early February the groups announced - through the two larger coalitions they lead - that they will unify their efforts on March 20 in New York City to organize one large protest. The announcement is troubling because UPJ, while quite critical of Israel, has until now viewed protest against Israeli policies as detracting from antiwar events. To the more radical ANSWER activists, by contrast, opposing Israel is seen as essential in the fight for global justice. An alliance between the two groups signals that UPJ is prepared to integrate anti-Israelism into the heart of its message
 http://www.adl.org/Israel/israel_protest_calendar_2004.asp

"On the other hand, divisions seem to be there in the community at large already, as has been featured recently. Perhaps they need to be spoken about."

Well ok. What is a community ? Ask a hundred people that question and you'll probably get almost 100 passionate, different answers.

Passionate; while we may not use the same words, community has deep meaning to many people; to most, from my experience.

It's a natural thing, Community is. Perhaps words are part of what defines it, but words can't contain it. Division is a natural part of Community, too. Younger and Older, Male and Female, all the argument that breath and fingers put forth are not going to change these differences.

Unless that argument leads to our destruction, of course.

So these are some of the natural divisions among us. I, for one, choose to respect and honor these differences. Beyond words, these divisions deserve that, I think, and debated or not honor and respect to them is about the best that I can do.

JFK didn't mean to kill a large chunk of civilians in the process. We lost about 3000 on 9/11. Being the official reason we're in Iraq is to prevent another 9/11 (despite the *fact* it's been proven again and again that Iraq wasn't able or willing to do it), we've killed many times 3000 - some say over 100,000.

Is that liberty? Is that just?

We and the rest of the world say "No".

"JFK didn't mean to kill a large chunk of civilians in the process."

JFK slaughtered thousands in Vietnam.

Yup. I attended the march in Harlem on behalf of Code Pink New York. Organizers of the event had asked us to endorse the march, and mostly out of a sense of solidarity with people of color who are most strenuously recruited for the war, we joined forces. However, we spent a lot of our time trying to physically distance ourselves from pro-Intifada marchers.

actually, answer is just a front for IAC. they are all located at the same address and have the same spokespeople. give it a rest.

As far as the person saying IAC and ANSWER are so different - I just echo what ramsey already said - IAC and ANSWER both have the same mailing address, are both led by the same people and so forth. I was actually trying to be nice, so I'll just say it flat-out if you desire clarity - IAC and ANSWER are fronts for the Workers World Party who have supported everyone from the North Korean leadership to the Baath party, and since the Bring the Troops Home coalition has the same mailing address as the WWP, IAC, and ANSWER, well, please excuse me if I mxied up two of WWP's front groups, everyone should just picture a big WWP octupus with tentacles that say IAC, ANSWER, Bring the troops home now coalition etc.

Regarding the post about criticism, divisiveness and so forth - well, I attended the Bring the Troops Home Now rally, so I think that says something about me compared to people who refuse to attend a WWP front group sponsored event. I've also attended smaller ANSWER/IAC events, mostly having to do with Colombia, especially pertaining to Coca-Cola. If ANSWER/IAC are doing something about it, and no other groups are, then ANSWER/IAC can count on my support.

I think the WWP and its front have admirable qualities - they organize more in working class black and latino neighborhoods and speak to their concerns more than UFPJ, they are against US imperialism period and do not go with the ebbs and tides of whether to do anything based on the input of Democratic Party hacks and liberal yuppies, you can count on them to always be against capitalism and imperialism, they are always out organizing against it. And as you said, I've already pointed out some of ANSWER/IAC's negative qualities. Here and elsewhere I have criticized the liberal/socdem UFPJ leadership. I should say that my opinion of ANSWER/IAC has gone from positive (before the war) to more negative (I felt they brought very little, and were actually a drag, on the UFPJ events last year) to more positive (they've been out organizing over the last year while UFPJ has been sitting on their ass).

I think anyone who isn't a complete Spartacus League nutcase can see some negatives about some of these Trotskyite cults who are tabling, about speakers screaming "SMASH IMPERIALISM!! SMASH CAPITALISM!! TROOPS DESERT!!" I witnessed people literally covering their ears during some of these speakers. It is not the way to build a movement to have wild-eyed maniacs screaming at a platform. I don't care about a militant message, but you have a microphone you don't have to scream your banal junk at the top of your lungs. And as I said, some speakers were not like that and were actually good.

Quick note: I think the police did a much better job this time. Even the snatch squads (who did not snatch anyone to my knowledge) were in a good mood.

Also meant to say that the organizers did a realy good job. Thanks for a peaceful day of action!

You absolutely on target. I get this vibe sometimes like certain rallies planned by certain groups have been planned perfectly by the Bushies to marginalize the peace movement and make absolute minimal impact by hyping up the machismo rhetoric and focusing on archaic and irrelevant (but radical / militant sounding) postures. What is the antidote? Thu-hell-if-I-know, but the meeting at Riverside Church with Jesse Jackson was awesome.

There was no real need for the police to be in anything but a good mood... even the names and numbers of the arrestees at the times sq. demo were givin to the cops and asked the cops how they could make it eaiser for them to get arrested.... I was working with the NLG and even some of the members thought that was a sillie move for a act of civil DISobeadence... I am non-violent but the organizers allowed theselves to be played by the police's hands... didnt the RNC teach us that they are their to prevent resistance... It was a nice statement willing to get arrested but the only protest really was on behalf of the journalists who were being prevented from taking pictures of the production line arrests... I like portests to go off without any unnessary issues but bowing down like this sends the message that we should just stay at home

AA -- You make some valid points, but how do you know JL is a he? Could be a Joan, Jennifer, Jane ....

hunter college student -- who are you replying to?
who is AA? who is JL?

perplexed, kolantai